In The Case of the Ghostly Girls, I uncover the four reasons that a well-written scene with realistic dialogue doesn’t live up to the writer’s expectations. Episode Four includes:
- A Dialogue Relevance Crash
- A Dialogue Action Crash
- An Element Connection Crash
- A Scene-Planning Crash
{ 23 comments… read them below or add one }
Thanks Holly! Very helpful.
I think it’s important to use bits of culturally accepted phenomena to connect with and guide the reader, and the changes you recommended touch on that: People interested in ghosts are generally aware of the temperature differences associated with their presence.
As writers, doesn’t it seem almost mandatory to have some hook to draw the reader into the scene before we bop them over the head with a new twist, such as a ghost? I love how you build a scene.
It seems that using the reader’s stereotypes can help to make them comfortable with our concept, making it easier for us to push at the edges of the accepted and introduce new concepts.
For example: Creating the ghost character from preconceived notions and limitations before allowing it to step through a mirror, becoming semi-real and lucid to interact with the main character from the other side of the glass might seem more logical than having it just occur out of the blue.
I do have a question about the dialog: the part where Rachel is staring at the ghost and Lisa’s trying to figure out what she’s looking at, wouldn’t that be a conflict related to one character being able to see the supernatural (and the other character can’t)?
I guess I’m unclear as to which parts of the dialog are good and which parts detract from the conflict.
Maybe if the two characters had a disagreement about the temperature, like in your example, then Rachel sees the ghost and they disagree about what they see.
Rachel obviously wants to keep her gift a secret from her friend, so she would probably have to say something mundane to throw off suspicion too.
I like the part about the sister and then the old guy.
Thanks Holly, I love these crash tests, very informative, it’s just a matter of putting it all into practice!!! I’ll keep trying, I appreciate your efforts.
Emily—The parts of the dialogue that actually hinge on the contact with the ghost are okay. They could be stronger, but they don’t actually detract. The first part, however, though well-written as dialogue, hurts the scene by being irrelevant to the scene’s core need.
thanks Holly – I love the tip about writing the focal point of the scene first and then writing the scene to it.
will stop a lot of my woolly waffling.
Thanks Holly, your examples are awesome. This one is particularly helpful. My characters always pop into my head talking to each other and conversing. I never know how much to use. Now I know: only use what helps build the scenes core needs. Wow, that cuts out a lot of their gibberish. I’ll just leave that stuff in my head and dub it character building.
Thanks Holly.
I’m going to go through my scenes and slash a lot of unnecessary dialogue. The idea of setting up the scene and its goals beforehand is definitley useful. Thanks so much for this.
So really, it’s not like real life where we often chat about various topics in one conversation. I’ll try it your way and see how it works.
Hello! I’m a long-time fan and subscriber to your site. The Ghostly Girls video was the perfect start to my writing day! I had the privilege of working with a great copy editor when I revised my first novel, and the crash sites in this video emphasized many of the lessons I learned from responding to her lovingly applied, blood-soaked notes. I’m 45,000 words into my second book. Hearing your words of wisdom have helped me to keep on track by making my characters and their conflicts the top priority at all times.
Happy writing!
What I like about this is the same thing I want more of. I had a spark of an a-ha moment here with ‘bringing dialogue to life.’
I see what people mean when they say, “the dialogue needs to bring them to life and match the scene,’ it makes sense to me.
Now, putting this into action. Maybe I need an example. What I am going to do is try rewriting some scenes with the lesson of ‘write down the point of the scene before typing the first word.’ I will see how this goes.
I am still unable to view the Ghostly Girls video. Love the previous ones.
Nice helpful video Holly,
I am terribly guilty of this, I thought perhaps making the dialogue realistic would draw the reader in. I understand that it can when it is well written, but I see your point, I does “hurt” the scene, thanks again!
RHP
Holly,
I agree with your dialogue analysis. Though near realistic, it’s purpose seems solely to establish credible character appropriate conversation. I believe the author intended sudden realization to carry the point. This may be a case of playing to an audience, rather than telling the story. (Though I admit, I love simple phrases as weight bearing components – “He was dead”.)
I’m not so fond of the temperature examples, but your point is well made. Every word must advance your story.
Thanks for allowing comments
Holly, I’m interested in the part where you talk about having a point for the scene and writing to it. You talk a lot in your blog posts and elsewhere about getting ideas for new scenes as you write; do you stop and plan those scenes before letting yourself write them, or do you just go with your Muse and fix the new scene later?
Watching the video a second time, I see you pretty much answered my question there when you said to write down the point of the scene before writing the first word. I guess I just felt so excited about figuring out what was wrong with what I was doing in my own book that I sorta missed it, lol. It seems contradictory to both follow the Muse and to plan at the same time, but I should know by now it’s not just possible, but a necessity.
Hi Holly,
I really enjoyed this podcast. Like Lily, my characters chatter away incessantly and I was never really sure what to put in and what not… Now I’ve got a guideline and that can only result in tighter, more focussed, writing!
So, thanks for doing these, I find them very helpful. I’ve been using your site for years and I really appreciate your tips and tricks!
I think this is your best video yet. Learning about a scene’s core need is something every begininning writer needs to learn. And know how to use.
And I find that I’m able to process the wisdom better this way than by reading craft books. Thanks for doing this.
Hi Holly – Great crash test, as usual. I did have a question. I’ve heard that editors don’t like stories that start off with a dialog sentence. The reasoning behind this escapes me. It’s certainly not bothersome as long as the dialog is snappy. What’s your opinion?
I really enjoyed this crash test, Holly. The Element Connection Crash gave me one of those WOAH! moments: a way to set the scene without exposition.
Thanks Holly!
Hey Holly —
At what point do you recommend having someone (friend, fellow writers, publishers, etc.) read your work?
Thanks!
Carol
Holly, this is my favorite crash test so far. It’s exactly what I needed to see (and put into practice) in my WIP. Thank you so much for doing these, and the great examples. You gave concrete ways to make the dialogue relevant to the scene, something I have heard before but never really seen demonstrated in this way. This was very helpful!
Thanks!
Chassily
It seems to be a key premise that our main character can’t distinguish ghosts from normal people, and this is an ongoing problem for her.
Wouldn’t it undermine that premise if you used physical foreshadowing (like temperature changes) that the character really should have noticed?
Thanks.
WOW! These are amazing and so much help. I can’t tell you how glad I am to have found such a talented and approachable teacher like you. Simple, straight out instruction and criticism that gets right to the point of the matter without loads techno-babble that just goes in one ear and out the other.
Thank you so much.